Episode 17: Turmeric vs Curcumin

00:00:33 Glenn:        Welcome back again to Natural Health for People and Pets. I'm co-host of the show, Glen Cooke. I'm gonna introduce the host of the show, Narelle Cooke.  

00:00:39 Narelle:       Hello everyone, so we're back again. 

00:00:42 Glenn:        Another show.

00:04:38 Narelle:        So today we're going to discuss the differences between turmeric versus curcumin.  

00:04:50 Glenn:        Isn't one derived from the other?  

00:04:52 Narelle:        Yeah, but you know the terms are very often used interchangeably, which isn't accurate.  

00:04:58 Glenn:       Right. That's good. 'cause I didn't know that.  

00:05:00 Narelle:       Yeah, and so today, hopefully by the end of the show people will understand why you can't just say turmeric, or you just can't say curcumin. It's a little bit complicated but it's really important because when people are buying supplements, whether it's for themselves or their pets, this is really important information to know and understand if you wanna have an actual therapeutic benefit from the product. Because a lot of people might be buying supplements online and they're not getting the results.

00:05:28 Glenn:        And then they think it doesn't work.  

00:05:29 Narelle:      Yeah, and then they give up on turmeric, curcumin supplements altogether. But it  could just be the quality and not understanding what to look for on the label when you do buy something.  

00:05:39 Glenn:        Okay, that's good to know.   

00:05:40 Narelle:       So as usual, I like to start at the beginning. I assume everyone knows about turmeric, but for those who may know it, just as a general term and not the details, turmeric is known scientifically as Curcuma Longa, that's the botanical name. And it comes from the ginger family. And just like ginger, it's the rhizome or the root of the plant that's used for cooking and medicinal purposes.  

00:06:04 Glenn:        And they're very bulbous roots, aren't they?  

00:06:06 Narelle:       Yeah. I mean, just like ginger. I mean they can be all gangly and things like that. So turmeric originated from India and it was an amazing part of Ayurvedic medicine.  

00:06:16 Glenn:        What does that mean?  

00:06:17 Narelle:        Well, you've got Ayurveda. You've got traditional Chinese medicine, you've got Ayurvedic medicine, you've got western medicine. 

00:06:23 Glenn:        A lot of people wouldn't know that. 'cause I didn't know, I had no idea what that meant.   

00:06:26 Narelle:        Okay, so I always just think of it as you've got traditional Chinese medicine, which people sort of understand. Well this is the Indian equivalent. 

00:06:36 Narelle:       But because it's now one of the most widely used plants around the world because of all the amazing health benefits that are starting to come up, and the research and the science behind turmeric and its active constituents. I mean it's absolutely skyrocketed in the last five years. And one paper I was reading said, I think there was something like at least 10,000 new research papers just on turmeric or around the topic of turmeric in the last five years. And people don't realise that's huge. Like that's an exponential flooding of the research with all things turmeric.  

00:07:11 Glenn:       Okay, that's great. 

00:07:12 Narelle:       But when it comes to using turmeric based products for health purposes, things aren't always what they seem. Whenever I think of it, it reminds me of that ad. This is probably showing our age, 'cause you'll remember it too, no doubt. Like you know the ‘oils ain't oils’. Yes. Was that Valvoline?  

00:07:26 Glenn:        Yes, it was.  

00:07:27 Narelle:        Yeah. The ‘oils ain't oils’ ad.   

00:07:28 Glenn:      Yeah, it was John Laws used to do it when he was on radio.  

00:07:31 Narelle:       Well same concept with all things turmeric. Because the issue is turmeric itself, roughly 70% of turmeric is carbohydrate. You might have like, you 13% moisture. You might have like 10 to 15% of things like proteins, essential oils, vitamins and minerals. But only around 3% of turmeric is what's called curcuminoids. And so the curcuminoids, they're the active polyphenolic compounds that have all the amazing health benefits. So that's a tiny proportion of turmeric that's active for health benefits. Most people are familiar with the term curcumin, but curcumin is just one of lots of different types of curcuminoids in turmeric. So to summarise that, you start with turmeric.  

00:08:19 Glenn:       This is kind of reminding me of that movie Inception where it's just a world inside a world, inside a world, inside a world.   

00:08:25 Narelle:       I love that. So you start with turmeric. Turmeric contains curcuminoids, and curcumin is one type of curcuminoid. So not so complicated when you break it down like that.  

00:08:37 Glenn:        So it's staged.

00:08:39 Narelle:        They're all quite different. So curcumin is just a tiny part of turmeric. It's very different, but the first problem with turmeric as a health supplement is that it only contains around 3% of the active constituents. The next problem with turmeric as a supplement is that of that 3% curcuminoid content, they estimate only 1% to 6% gets absorbed by the body. So potentially as little as 1% of 3% is what's available.  

00:09:18 Glenn:        Oh wow.  

00:09:19 Narelle:        So turmeric has like crazy low bioavailability and the main reason for that is it's not soluble in water. So that's why it's best taken with a source of fat. So if you think about the traditional Indian use when they're using it in curries, they're using a lot of other spices such as pepper, and they're using ghee as the source of fat. So that's the perfect combination to help with the bioavailability of those active compounds in the turmeric. The third problem with turmeric products is that these active constituents that have all the health benefits, such as curcumin, they're really quickly metabolised or broken down in the liver to inactive compounds, and then these inactive compounds get really quickly excreted from the body through the stools, which I always laugh 'cause I always think, oh yeah, we start with golden paste and then we end up with golden stools.  

00:10:09 Narelle:        Anyway, a tiny, tiny percentage is absorbed by the body and that tiny percentage that's absorbed is really, really rapidly broken down by the liver into inactive compounds that don't really do what we want 'em to do and then we poo them out. Just taking an oral turmeric powder, especially something that you might buy from the supermarket if you need it for a health purpose, if you've got arthritis or whatever it is, you are really not gonna get the full health potential from that powder. Should we go through what some of the health benefits of turmeric are? Just assume people know that turmeric.  

00:10:41 Glenn:       Well considering you're talking about it, it may be a good idea.  

00:10:43 Narelle:        So I guess the main condition or benefit that turmeric's known for is its anti-inflammatory properties. And you know, science now is pretty much saying that inflammation is the root cause of any disease that you can think of. Like it all starts with inflammation in the body. Whether it's physical, whether it's emotional, it just all stems back to inflammation. Do you wanna know how turmeric reduces inflammation, or do we just wanna accept that turmeric reduces inflammation? Why  

00:11:10 Glenn:       Why do you keep asking me this, it's important.  

00:11:12 Narelle:        Well, I love that level of detail and you know that science, but you are a good sounding board for whether we don't need to know this, like that's a nerd thing.  

00:11:21 Glenn:        Well, I don't know. So I guess if there's people out there who have an interest in it, which is probably like any other subject matter. Some people are thinking, I know about turmeric and it's not until they find out what they don't know about turmeric and then they go, oh man, that's, like I said, it's like inception. It's just like a topic inside a topic, inside a topic. So sometimes it's better to get an abbreviated breakdown of what it actually is and the benefits of it. Because some of these things you just accept on face value that there'll be a marketing person that will say, this is wonderful, it's healthy for you, it's very good for you. You can find it on our shelves at ex health store or ex chemist or something like that. So then you would just accept that and you go along and buy it because marketing has said it's great for you. You think to yourself, right, how many times have I seen something on a Facebook ad or an ad where I've sent you the link to it and you go, why are you showing me this? And I'll go, well, because it sounds really interesting.  

00:12:17 Narelle:        They claim this.  

00:12:18 Glenn:        Right. But it's the marketing behind it that's been wonderful. Like when you've broken it down for me, you said I could make you something that's 10 times better than, is 10 times more potent because even though this will have some benefit, it hasn't got the benefit for what you want it for.  

00:12:33 Narelle:        Yeah, and it's about understanding the ingredients. 'cause you know, with marketing hyping, we're going slightly off topic. 

00:12:38 Glenn:        But it's important, like you're saying to me, should I explain this? The answer is, yeah, because this is a topic about turmeric and curcumin.  

00:12:45 Narelle:        Well let me just summarise how turmeric or curcumin or the curcuminoids act to actually reduce inflammation in a nutshell. So the way it works at a cellular level, is that we have what's called a master switch for triggering inflammation in the body, like turning it on, turning it off. And that's called a nuclear factor kappa B. So it's usually abbreviated to NFkB. So in a normal state, this NFkB and it's in the cytoplasm of the cell, which is sort of where all the gooey liquid is. But in a normal state it's bound to something else that inhibits it from working. But when there's injury or where there's like another inflammatory stimuli, such as free radicals which are damaging the body and the cell, then that causes that NFkB to release from its inhibitor and then it goes into the nucleus of the cell, and then it activates the genes responsible for expressing Cyclooxygenase 2 or Cox 2. And we've spoken about Cox 2 in previous podcasts for The Canine Paradigm that I think I've done with you  

00:13:46 Glenn:        Possibly.  

00:13:47 Narelle:        So you know, pain medications are targeting that Cox 2 pathway. They're trying to dampen Cox 2, but that's what turmeric does. So it inhibits the NFkB that triggers that inflammatory pathway in the body. Anyway, I find that really fascinating that in our cells, you know, all of this little switching on and off is all happening.  

00:14:07 Glenn:        Absolutely, that cellular function is really incredible.  

00:14:10 Narelle:        Yeah. So inflammation, it can lead to pretty much any disease. You can think of joint tissue destruction, cancer, cardiovascular diseases, insulin resistance and diabetes. You've got brain issues, liver issues, kidney issues. Remember obesity is an inflammatory state. So curcumin's great for overweight and obese people and dogs, any arthritic conditions, autoimmune conditions, gut conditions, especially things like Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis. So any of those IBD issues in people or dogs. Mood disorders like anxiety and depression have been clinically shown to benefit from turmeric. Alzheimer's disease because it…  

00:14:45 Glenn:        Turmeric or curcumin?   

00:14:47 Narelle:        Yeah I know, it's easier to say turmeric than curcuminoids as we go along. So I'm sort of doing what I tell people they shouldn't be doing.  

00:14:54 Glenn:   So before we progress any further with that, you're not claiming that it cures it, you're just saying it assists with it.  

00:15:00 Narelle:        Yeah. It can help with these conditions. For example, you know, clinical studies show a certain amount, and I don’t know what the dose is. Because remember with clinical trials, or any health condition treated by a natural supplement, there's a clinical therapeutic dose. And this is why I have issues with a lot of animal supplements that don't list the amount of an ingredient on the label, because how do I know that it's at a dose that's actually gonna have a health benefit? Based on the science.  

 00:15:27 Glenn:       And you're also talking science, not just wishful thinking as well.  

00:15:30 Narelle:        Yeah. There's just thousands and thousands of research papers out there now about the health benefits of turmeric and its active constituents.  

00:15:38 Glenn:       From credible resources as well.  

00:15:40 Narelle:        Yeah, I mean for the most part there's always dodgy studies where their methodology is flawed, but the majority, the largest percentage, you know, they're gonna be credible. I mean, turmeric's great for pain, it's great for enhancing recovery from exercise-induced damage. It's been shown to be as effective in some instances like conventional steroid meds. And if you or your dog needs to be on steroids and you take turmeric at the same time, it can actually help reduce the side effects of the steroids. I mean it's antibacterial, it's antifungal, it's good for wound healing, it's good for skin issues. I just read a paper that said that it's been shown to decrease histamine release, which, you know, we did a whole podcast on histamine and allergies for dogs. So, you know, that's great for allergy prone dogs. People can google the myriad of health benefits of turmeric and its active constituents for health.  

00:16:29 Narelle:        But you know, going back to that really poor bioavailability because it is so hard to get the active constituents into the body to do the good work. Companies, you know, over the years have had to really think about how they can process the raw turmeric and create formulations that enhance uptake in bioavailability. And the problem is you're not likely to see this on animal products. just because of how poorly regulated the industry is. But if anyone's taking a human grade curcumin supplement, hopefully you can look at the label and see that there might be a particular type of curcumin mentioned, some examples, BCM-95, Meriva, CurcuWIN, Theracurmin, Longvida, and C3 complex. So they're all painted in forms of curcumin that have been tweaked in different ways depending on the name to enhance bioavailability.  

00:17:23 Narelle:        So they all differ in the way they've been processed. But the one that I've always looked for, for myself, for my human clients and my doggy clients, is the last one I mentioned, that's C3 complex form of curcumin. And it's called C3 complex because it contains the main three curcuminoids, which are curcumin, which everyone knows. But the other two main ones are demethoxycurcumin, and bisdemethoxycurcumin. So it's standardised to contain at least 95% of those three curcuminoids combined. Now the reason I have naturally gravitated towards the C3 complex is because it's now the most clinically studied form of curcumin formulation on the market with the most scientific publications and clinical trials behind it. It has a really high antioxidant value. So something called the ORAC  rating scale.

00:18:15 Glenn: I dunno what that is, I'm just saying ‘yep’ to support you.

00:18:15 Narelle:        We usually see products, like superfood products, will usually have a little graph on the back to show that their product has these amazingly high ORAC value, like berries and things like that, so it just means it's got a greater antioxidant potential that just helps to offset the free radicals in the body, which are often the trigger for inflammation which we touched on earlier. The C3 complex has the most safety data recorded for it and it's consistent with its quality. So you know, you're gonna get the exact same ratio of those three curcuminoids in every batch. And you know, it's been proven through all those studies to have really good bioavailability.  

00:18:57 Narelle:       Now the way, and people tend to understand this a little bit, the way the C3 complex increases bioavailability is by adding in a black pepper extract, it's called piperine. So the active constituent of black pepper is piperine. So one study involving both animals and humans found that adding the piperine improved the absorption of curcumin by up to 2000%. So that's awesome. It's not gonna do us any good if we can't get it into the bloodstream. Now the key ways that the piperine or the black pepper works, firstly it makes it easier for the curcuminoids to pass through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream. So that's great. But remember, you know, these curcuminoids are really rapidly broken down by the liver so we need to avoid that. We want them to stay in the blood as long as possible so they can do all their good work.  

00:19:48 Narelle:        So the second way that the piperine from pepper helps with bioavailability, is that it slows down that breakdown of curcumin by the liver. So we end up with higher levels in the blood. And the way it does this is by inhibiting what's called the cytochrome P450 mediated pathway. And that's just phase one. So our liver has two detoxification pathways. We've got phase one and phase two. So the pepper helps to slow down the phase one liver detoxification pathway that breaks down the curcuminoids. So a lot of people will say that, you know, you need to add coconut oil and black pepper to turmeric to activate it. And while I understand what they mean when they say activated, technically it's not a correct statement because the pepper isn't, I mean it's not activating anything. It's not like it's reversing the inactive metabolites back into active metabolites once they've been broken down. It's simply slowing that breakdown in the first place so that we've got more free curcuminoids remaining in the bloodstream. It's just one of those little technicalities. It's not activating it, it's just slowing it down. So we don't pull it out as quickly. So that's a C3 complex. So whenever I'm shopping for a turmeric product, for my human clients or my doggy clients, not that I use that exclusively because sometimes I can't find what I want, but that's what I'm looking for primarily.  

00:21:11 Glenn:        But now you have. 

00:21:12 Narelle:       I have, which I'm gonna touch on very shortly and it's really exciting. But the other great form of curcuminoids is as a liquid. Most turmerics come in powdered form but with technology progressing, you can now get it as a liquid form. The good thing about the liquid version is you can administer it sublingually, which means under the tongue, which is what I often recommend for human clients, particularly human clients with a lot of gut issues. Or you can do what's called a buccal administration, which is where you put it between the gum and the cheek, and that's much easier to do when it comes to dogs or cats. Now the key advantage of administering liquid curcumin products in the cheek or under the tongue is that there's lots of capillaries in these regions that are like super close to the surface, which means that whether it's drugs or supplements, they can be absorbed directly and really quickly into the bloodstream without having to go through the digestive system.  

00:22:06 Narelle:        Which is why sublingual B12 is awesome for people with gut issues, or certain genetic issues, because it just bypasses that whole gut problem that's impacting their ability to get enough B12. It works the same way with the liquid curcumin. So because it doesn't go through the digestive system, it also bypasses that first pass metabolism by the liver. So like I said at the beginning, the curcuminoids from turmeric are really poorly absorbed because they firstly struggle to get in from the gut, and then once they're into the bloodstream they get broken down really quickly. So by doing the sublingual or the buccal administration, you're literally just avoiding those two main issues to bioavailability. And the other key benefit of that is it means you can take a much lower dose because it's going directly into the bloodstream and you're not losing a lot of it out through the stools, you can take a lower dose and still get the same result, which is awesome. But then having said all that, I guess it raises the question, why would you ever use a non-liquid form? 

00:23:03 Glenn:        Okay, why wouldn't you ever use a non-liquid form.

00:23:04 Narelle:        Because you've just bypassed the gut and the liver, there are definitely positives for both and I do think there's definitely a place for both. And to give you an example, there's a new product range that I'm currently the sole Australian supplier for.  

00:23:20 Glenn:       How exciting.  

00:23:20 Narelle:        It is. It's really awesome. And the brand's called Vet Activ8, and the reason I got onto them, and I love them so much, is their brand really aligns with my beliefs around quality control when it comes to the manufacturing of products for animals. And the use of high quality evidence-based ingredients. So I love that. That's what they're all about. And they've been in the business of manufacturing high quality products for like 30 years now. So they're very science-based. The other great thing is they're a hundred percent Australian made and owned. So there are two products that I really wanted from their range to promote and share with my doggy clients because they're just amazing. So the first one, and they're both based on the active curcuminoids from turmeric. So the first one's called Joint Health and it's the powdered formula that contains the C3 complex with the piperine. Now in their products they refer to it as VetPerine, but it's that same active constituent that's known to enhance the bioavailability of the curcuminoids. But the other thing I love about it is that it contains rosehip. So most people will be familiar with the enormous health benefits of rose hips for our dogs because of the product Rosehip Vital. So I've been using Rosehip Vital for our dogs for years. 

00:24:37 Glenn:        Yeah, it's one of the staples,  

00:24:39 Narelle:        We get really great results. I remember one of our previous Frenchies, I'm convinced the addition of the rose hip saved us from a cruciate ligament surgery when he was a puppy. And the vet's like, no, you know, there's no way you can't do cruciate ligament surgery. And I'm like, just gimme a month or two and let me see. And yeah, you wouldn't have known he had any issues  

00:24:57 Glenn:        Back onto the product that you were talking about before. It was quite a journey that you actually went through. One that I got to experience with you along the way, because you're almost at the stage you were so frustrated because this is something that you've been getting such a high demand for from your clients, and you were almost at the stage where you were talking to me about having to manufacture it yourself because you were just saying, it's not out there. I can't find what I'm looking for. I'm getting increasingly frustrated because of the quality of the product's not there and then you finally found this. It was amazing. You came into me and said, oh, guess what? I found this group and they're doing everything that I want. And yeah, you've been having mega conversations, very, very detailed, sciencey, nerdy talk. And finally you found this amazing product and I'm, I'm really really pleased about it as well.  

00:25:44 Narelle:       Yeah and it's hard because I've always sort of reverted back to human curcumin products for my dog clients, but even though it's coming from me and you know, I'm so risk averse and I make sure everything's safe if I'm gonna recommend it. There's just this natural reluctance by pet owners to use human products for their pets. I think they're just afraid because the directions for use aren't at the right dose for their dog. So they rely on me to give them that information, but I just find there's a reluctance. So I love that there are now dog specific dosings for the different dog body weights and cats too. And the other great thing is I've always used two separate products. So I've always used the RoseHip Vital and a pure curcumin supplement for our dogs.  

00:26:25 Narelle:        But now that I've got access to the Vet Activ8 range, I'm just gonna use their joint health powder for all of our dogs for daily use, which just saves me the hassle of two products. And I hear that quite regularly. You know, I do a lot of consults with dog owners and one of the things that always comes up is, I am just so tired of having to add so many different powders to my dog's food.  Well I guess this product goes some way into eliminating that problem. So that's really great. And the second product that they have, which I really love, is the pure liquid curcuminoids. So whereas the C3 complex contains those top three curcuminoids that we mentioned, like curcumin, demethoxycurcumin,and bisdemethoxycurcumin, the liquid one is called Joint Care Medi Strength and it actually contains a blend of seven different types of curcuminoids.  

00:27:16 Narelle:        So you've still got those main three, but then you've got some other ones. And the benefit of that is, one, you get a broader spectrum of benefits because the additional curcuminoids, plants are full of different compounds and they all have a purpose, but they work synergistically together. So, you know, as an example, one of the additional curcuminoids in the liquid is a, it's called a Dehydroturmerone derivative, and while it doesn't have direct anti-inflammatory properties itself, it's been shown to play a role in increasing the bioavailability of the other curcuminoids and helping them get taken up into the cells of the body. So whereas the C3 complex has the piperine, the black pepper to do that, the liquid has these additional curcuminoids to enhance the overall uptake and bioavailability. 

00:28:07 Glenn:        So It's all a support network for each other. 

00:28:09 Narelle:        Yeah, and the thing is, you can use both products. So the company states that it's absolutely safe to use both products together. And just to give an example of that, with Ladybug at the moment, because she's more compromised because she had the spinal injury. She's much more compromised from a musculoskeletal perspective, and the daily burden on her body because her movements are so ataxic she needs a much higher level of support. So she's getting the powder because it's got the rose hip in there as well. She's getting that once a day, but then I'm also giving her the liquid version at the other end of the day. So she's getting the double whammy. Whereas, you know, our other two Frenchies, because they're young and pretty healthy and have no issues, I'm happy for them just to be on that combined turmeric.  

00:28:55 Glenn:        So when we're talking about Opie, we're talking about no physical impediments. If anybody's been watching my Instagram with him, headbutting the cat all day long, let's just talk about physical issues.

00:29:06 Narelle:       Actually, maybe I should put him on the liquid because turmeric's been shown to help with behaviour and mental health.  

00:29:13 Narelle:       Like it'd be a good experiment though, wouldn't it?  

00:29:15 Glenn:        Yeah, it would.  

00:29:16 Narelle:        And even Randy, I've only had Randy on the joint health powder, but he's getting older too. So I guess if you wanted to just pick one of the two products, you might choose the Joint Health powder with the addition of the rose hips, for younger dogs, just for general wellbeing and increased vitality to support their immune systems, things like that. Or just for dogs or cats that have very mild symptoms or very early stages of joint issues, skin issues, gut issues. That would be a nice place I guess for the powder. But then you might really wanna consider using the Joint Care liquid for older dogs, that are displaying more severe signs of joint disease if you need a more potent treatment approach, if you need a more rapid treatment approach.  

00:30:01 Narelle:        So the other week Pixel, one of our Frenchies was running around like an absolute lunatic like she does, and she launches, I mean it's the worst thing for Frenchies, but she just launches off furniture and anything she can sort of do. But I noticed, you know, she was carrying one of her legs a little bit. And so in that instance, giving her the liquid would be ideal because it's an acute injury, you want a quick response, you want a potent treatment to sort of nip it in the bud quickly, that would be good there. But you can use them separately. You can use 'em together. It really just depends on your dog's situation. I guess to start to wrap it up when you're choosing a curcumin supplement, like just remember it's really important to buy a formula that's being clinically tested and proven to be absorbed.  

00:30:42 Narelle:        Otherwise you're just pulling out golden paste. And if you can, you know, you really do wanna choose a patented form of curcumin such as the C3 complex. And remember if a label just states that it contains turmeric root, which a lot of dog supplements do, it doesn't really tell us much at all. I mean, it might be good, it might not be good. It depends on the quality of the raw ingredients, it depends on their extraction process. And whenever a label is super vague, like the first thing I do is what aren't you telling us? Because if a company is going to spend the extra money to use high quality ingredients and more bioavailable ingredients, they're not gonna keep that to themselves. That is absolutely gonna be highlighted somewhere on the label. 

00:31:23 Narelle:        Definitely in the ingredients list. So it's really just the brands that are using cheaper and poorer quality ingredients that will have those super simple and vague terms like turmeric root powder. Because generally they just want you to be sucked in by just the general hype and knowledge around an ingredient. So turmeric, so people hear turmeric and they're like, oh, turmeric has all these amazing health properties, and the company just hopes that you don't know any different. Like you just think it's turmeric and you don't understand that it's the curcuminoids in the turmeric that have the health properties and you know, you hardly absorb any of it from plain turmeric root powder by itself. Yeah, that's really important. And you know, like I mentioned last episode when we're talking about the liquid herbs and the poor quality control just around supplements, generally. Some products will just put the name of the herb and not even state what part of the plant is in the product.  

00:32:13 Narelle:        So is it the root, is it the leaf, is it the berries? Is it the flower? Because that makes a fundamental difference to the health properties of that product. And when it comes to curcumin products, it's even more rare for a product to outline that not only is it a patented form, but it's standardised to contain a minimum level of those active constituents as well. One of the reasons that's so important is that curcumin supplements or turmeric supplements, are really bad for being adulterated or contaminated with other things. There was a case where turmeric supplements were confiscated, it's only a couple of years ago, from a really well-known supplier apparently. And when they were tested they were found to be contaminated with 43% of non turmeric material. So people thought they were buying  a hundred percent pure turmeric product  

00:33:05 Glenn:        And it was just a bulker inside it.  

00:33:07 Narelle:        And nearly half of it was just some other random substance. Turmeric powders are often bulked up with grains like, you know, wheat flour, barley flour, rye flour, so completely safe in that regard. 

00:33:19 Glenn:        But it's just disgusting and it's just very unethical. And this is why you've gone with the company that you've gone with as being the sole distributor. Because you've extensively researched it. They're Australian owned and manufactured. Very strict procedures and standards and guidelines that they're working behind and it's exactly what you've been looking for in all your searches.  

00:33:41 Narelle:        Absolutely. So look, the bottom line is, you know, quality matters. You need to be able to trust where a product is made, how it's made. Do they use good manufacturing practices? Because at the end of the day, it's your health, it's your dog's health, you're buying it, you're spending your money for a reason,you wanna see a benefit. Particularly if your dog's quite sick or in pain. Like that's just heartbreaking when you have to watch that day after day. So if you're buying a product that's not what it claims to be because of poor manufacturing or unethical sort of practices,that's just heartbreaking to me. So the Vet Activ8 range is really awesome. I know I can ring them at any time and pick their brains, which again is an amazing green light for the ethics and the integrity of a company that's not afraid to talk to you about their products.  

00:34:27 Glenn:        Exactly. One of the things I have learned from you too, which is as we mentioned before, is to ask a lot more questions about the product instead of just accepting the fantastic marketing that goes behind it. I've seen products that have been out there before by a popular celebrity or a popular influencer and they don't know what they're selling. I'm not saying this is almost always the case, but there are a lot of times where people are taken up by the profit that's derived from it over the actual integrity of the product itself. So there have been things I'm talking about from my own personal experience here, where I've looked at some amazing men's product herb and that I sent to Narelle and said, what do you think of this? And she'll say, that's probably…  

00:35:11 Narelle:      I usually roll my eyes. I'm like, yeah, here we go again. 

00:35:14 Glenn:        Exactly, she rolls her eyes and she'll say to me something like, this is half as good as what you need  

00:35:18 Narelle:       Or what I can get from an Australian company. 

00:35:21 Glenn:        That's right. And she'll say, it's just a pretty label from somebody who's spruiking. So it does pay to work with professionals, it may cost a little bit more. But when you're talking about the percentage of the actual necessity of the ingredient that's going into it, over getting something that you're not really, I guess what I'm trying to say is there are times where you'll buy something because you'll think this is what I'm after. I'm gonna save some money by doing it this way. But you're actually not because you are not getting anywhere near what you want, or sometimes you're not even getting the product that you really need because you haven't really consulted with a professional. You've just been suckered into marketing. Although I believe in marketing, it's a good tool and we're doing a bit of it now for Narelle's products.  

00:36:03 Glenn:        Yes. I'm not trying to be unethical, or trying to be, you know, a stooge and say to people, we've got a product and we're not trying to sell it 'cause we are. But it's because you've done extensive research on it and that's the only reason we're gonna sell it. If it’s something that you included in your range, if you found out there was something better or the quality had slipped in what you are doing, you would immediately look into removing that product. And that's always been the ethos of what you and I have talked about with what you are doing in your business. And it's always been what you've stood for anyway is, what you're researching is this is the best availability for what's out here now.  

00:36:43 Narelle:       Yeah. And the trouble's been I love that I can actually actively promote and talk about the Activ8 range on the podcast because like I said, up until now I've been using human grade supplements for my dog clients and they're practitioner only human grade supplements, so I can't actually talk about those outside of a clinic setting, because one, you know, they're quite potent and you know, there are certain conditions around which practitioners can sell and promote those products on social media. And the other thing is the health risk. So if I say that I'm using X, Y, and Z human supplements for dogs and then people just go out and buy them themselves and don't understand how to dose them down for their pet, then that's a safety issue. Otherwise on every podcast I would've been promoting for this and that, it's just been tricky because they're human grade.  

00:37:31 Glenn:       So it comes down to knowledge and ethics.  

00:37:32 Narelle:        Yeah. The Vet Activ8 range, I can freely talk about and all the animal dosing is on the label. So people, it's a safe approach. I should just quickly add before we wrap up once and for all that it's not to say that if you're making golden paste for your dog that it's not having some health benefits, 'cause you're still getting vitamins and minerals and essential oils. So even turmeric itself, even if you're not getting a lot of those curcuminoids taken up into the body, it's not devoid of health benefits. So everything you know has a nutritional value, but if you're using it because you've got a dog with joint issues or pain issues, then I don't think it's gonna cut it. So I think you need a more concentrated form of those active constituents.  

00:38:13 Glenn:       Okay. So where do people find this product?  

00:38:15 Narelle:       On my website shop, naturalhealthandnutrition.com au. and just go to the shop tab and you'll see the dog supplement tab there. So there are 2 Vet Activ8 products, one is the C3 complex with the rose hip and the black pepper, and the other is the pure liquid curcuminoid product. So yeah, jump onto it. Limited stock, I must say there is limited stock available  

00:38:35 Glenn:       And you're not kidding about that.  

00:38:36 Narelle:        Yeah, it's hugely popular. So I was only able to get a small amount of stock because of how popular it is overseas. So it's not being sold at the moment in Australia, but it is in the Asian market. It is really just taking off. So I managed to grab some of the stock before it went out to Asia, so naturalhealthandnutrition.com.au. If you've got any questions jump on the Facebook page from Natural Health for People and Pets or just email me, narelle@naturalhealthandnutrition.com.au  

00:39:01 Glenn:        And all these product ranges we use on our own dogs. 

00:39:04 Narelle: Oh, absolutely. 

00:39:05 Glenn: So it's a daily part of their nutritional upkeep.  

00:39:07 Narelle:        Yep. I would not sell anything that I haven't tried on my own dogs. 00:39:10 Glenn: Exactly. Let's leave it there.  

00:39:12 Glenn:        Yeah, absolutely. Goodbye everyone.  

00:39:13 Narelle:       Thanks everyone. Bye.