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Episode 16: The benefits of liquid herbs for dogs

00:00:33 Glenn:       Welcome back to Natural Health for People and Pets. I'm co-host of the show, Glen Cooke, but introducing the host with the most, Narelle Cook.  

00:00:39 Narelle:        Hello everyone.  

00:00:40 Glenn:        Welcome back.  

00:03:50 Glenn:     Let's talk about your subject, and I think we're talking about liquid herbs. Are we?  

00:04:06 Narelle:       We are. So it's something that with my human clients I've been using for years and years, like liquid herbal tonics and more recently with my dog clients. But I've always just for some reason just kept it to the clients that I see personally in clinic because it's just easier to make up the formulas then and there on the spot. But recently I've been getting more inquiries from my distance consult people about liquid herbs, just asking more questions and following on from the seminar, just recently a few people approached me just again asking questions about liquid herbs and what they could use for their dog based on the health condition that they were suffering from. So I thought I would talk a little bit about it today because there's no reason that I can't send my liquid herbs far and wide across the country. But I just thought I'd explain why I like them and some of the more popular types of formulas that I use in clinic with a focus on dogs today.  

00:04:56 Glenn:        Hey, before you kick off, have you ever heard people saying that herbs don't work?  

00:05:01 Narelle:        In my profession? I hear a lot of ‘that doesn't work’, whether it's herbs or just the whole principle of natural medicine in general.

00:05:08 Glenn:       I think it’s crazy and it's kind of funny that people say things like that. A lot of modern day medicine has come from herbs. If you study what shamans and medicine men and women around the world have done pre all this scientific development, a lot of it was derived from herbs and the like  

00:05:23 Narelle:        Aspirin.  

00:05:24 Glenn:        Aspirin. Exactly. But you know, I remember somebody on the internet where all arguments come from professional people and uh, somebody was raising the fact that herbs don't work, and somebody else chimed in and said, ever smoked marijuana or taken magic mushrooms before? Go do that and then tell me herbs don't work. And I thought, wow, that is actually a profound statement and a good one to make, because let's not talk about psychedelics and the like, but let's just talk about herbs in general.  

00:05:54 Narelle:        I mean it's been around the world for thousands and thousands of years, the traditional use of so many different herbs and if they didn't work, you wouldn't have such an extensive traditional use to draw upon. That's evidence. It's really interesting. So when I was at uni, I've done a lot of herbal medicine study and my study's been specific to western herbal medicine, as opposed to Chinese herbal medicine. It's still on my to-do list to one day study Chinese herbs, watch this space Glen.  

00:06:19 Glenn:       Okay, yep. More study.  

00:06:20 Narelle:        More study. So when I was at uni studying my Bachelor of Health Science in Naturopathy, when we did clinic hours a lot of the time we shared that space with students doing the Bachelor of Health Science in Nutritional Medicine. So as naturopaths we study all of the nutritional subjects that the nutritional medicine students study, but we do herbs on top of it. So that's sort of the extra element that naturopaths have that nutritionists don't study. But because nutritionists don't study herbs, the universities are really strict. When we're in clinic, the nutritionists were never allowed to prescribe anything herbal to their clients. Even something as simple as turmeric, and I say simple, but there are certain health conditions where even turmeric's contraindicated. So it just drives me, I guess this is one of my soapbox topics where students studying Bachelor's Degree in Nutrition can't even recommend turmeric to a client, when there's all these random people on social media and all these, MLM people just randomly pushing products with herbs in them without truly understanding just how powerful they are.  

00:07:23 Narelle:        And herbs are really powerful and they should in some instances be considered and used cautiously, in the same way that you would consider or use pharmaceutical medications. Because they do have powerful effects on a lot of the metabolic processes in the body, and particularly the liver phase one and phase two detoxification pathways. So lots of instances where even herbs that we think are super safe and benign can really mess with someone's health, or a dog's health. Let me talk about why I do like liquid herbs, and what I love is I've started using liquid herbs a lot more for dogs, and I find it's so much easier to give them to dogs than to my human clients. And Glen, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about here, because as humans we are so particular about the taste of things. Everything's gotta taste nice and someone could be dying in my office and if what I prescribe them could save their life, I mean this is exaggerating, but it tasted bad, they'd probably say to me, no, I'm not taking that because it tastes so bad. I'm like, but you know, this is gonna fix your problem. But it's just human nature. If it tastes bad, there's no compliance. 

00:08:27 Glenn:       And I must say liquid herbs generally don't taste great,  

00:08:29 Narelle:        Are pretty manky in the taste department.  

00:08:31 Glenn:        Do you know, that drew me back in time to when we first met Michael, who is an audiologist. Was he an audiologist?  

00:08:37 Narelle:       Yeah, he was an audiologist.  

00:08:38 Glenn:        So he was an audiologist and he was really into liquid herbs, and his whole office was literally wall to wall liquid herbs and he'd mix 'em up on the spot for you. And I remember, one of the first times I went to see him, he said, you are just loaded with unhealthy bacteria. You know, I'm gonna give you some stuff which is basically going to eradicate it. Yeah, cleanse. And he said, but be warned, some pretty heavy toilet time is coming. I literally felt like everything from my eyebrows down came out. I know that's pretty gross. 

00:09:05 Narelle:        But it's the taste. 

00:09:07 Glenn:       I was getting to that. Like the taste was absolutely diabolical, to the point where I had to hold my nose to be able to, to drink it. It's not only the smell of it but also the taste of it was pretty wretched. But I've gotta say I'd tried everything at that point in time, like all modern medicine and all the ‘science’ that was directed my way and nothing was working. And it was amazing that once Michael hit me up with this stuff, it was incredible the transformation it had on me. You know, I was getting shakes and I was getting eyebrow twitches and all sorts of things. I was really in a bad way. And  I reckon six weeks into this program, and again Michael warned me, he said the flu-like symptoms gonna hit you pretty bad. He said, you'll be pretty much two or three days with cramps and headaches and everything like that. He was pretty much on the knock. It was two days on the couch sweating. And he said, unfortunately this is part of the detoxification that your body's gonna have to go through. But amazing and profound. That's how I would label it.  

00:10:04 Narelle:        And look, back then like 20 odd years ago, my dad was the biggest skeptic. Because, you know, I wasn't doing what I was doing now, and we convinced my dad to see Michael as well.  

00:10:13 Glenn:        Because he had gout and everything, didn't he?  

00:10:15 Narelle:        Oh yeah. He just went in there thinking it's just a whole lot of garbage. And it was such a miraculous turnaround of his health. Even he was converted, and he was very evangelistic about it, preaching to all his friends that they need to go see this guy. And you know, everyone was asking what he was doing, but I guess we are sort of digressing,  

00:10:33 Glenn:       Well not really 'cause it's relevant because there is a lot of, maybe not on your show so much, but there is a heap of skepticism out there about herbs. Neither one of us is into the woo of anything. But having tried it and being on the other end of it and seeing how well it worked, like weight loss, health, returning a bunch of things that you wouldn't have thought was practical. I think that's the essence of the message that I think we're trying to get through today, is that this stuff is really beneficial and it does work.   

00:11:00 Narelle:        Oh, there's so much science now. I mean with the technology we have, I mean they just pull apart substances, you know, down to all the individual active constituents and all the compounds. So a lot of what's in herbs is well-documented now. I mean it's always expanding the science, but it's pretty hard to deny a lot of the beneficial properties these days. So when we're talking about herbs, herbs can come in powdered form, they can be in capsules or tablets or liquids, which is what we're focusing on today. And one of the reasons I love liquids so much, and all my dogs get their liquid herbs pretty much on a daily basis, depends on what's going on with each of them. And I must say most liquid herbs are extracted with an alcohol solution, and a lot of people when they hear that, they sort of cringe and go, oh alcohol, that can't be good.  

00:11:44 Narelle:        And it's like an oxymoron, you know, you're giving a healthy herb, but it's in alcohol and people think, well isn't that detrimental? But it's not. The beauty of an alcohol extracted herbal mixture is that not all beneficial compounds in a plant are water soluble. There's so many awesome active constituents, they're called in plant matter, that you can only access them by putting them in something like alcohol. And that way you get like a full spectrum, full extraction of all the goodness. So that's great. And when we talk about, particularly with my human clients, about the alcohol content, I guess I'll just jump ahead. One of the beautiful things about liquid herbs is they're so concentrated. You only need tiny, tiny amounts. So even a human body size dose of a liquid herb, they say contains the amount of alcohol that you might find naturally in a super ripe banana. So when you put it into perspective like that, who wouldn't hesitate to eat it, you know, unless you don't like overripe bananas. But we don't think too much about the natural fermentation alcohols that get formed in food. So that's where a human dose, and the dog doses are so much tinier than what I give my human. So if you're worried about your dog's overall health by having an alcohol-based herbal tonic, you don't have to be worried.  

00:12:57 Glenn:        Primarily what you're saying is, don't focus on something that's a non-issue.  

00:13:01 Narelle:        Absolutely. And the other great thing about liquid herbs as opposed to say capsules or tablets in particular, is our bodies and our dog's bodies can absorb them super quickly. So in our mouths and in our  tongue and in our cheeks, inside our mouth, we've got all of these capillaries. So when we take a liquid herbal tonic, that gets pretty much immediately drawn up into the bloodstream, which is why people might be familiar with sublingual vitamin B12. That's probably the most common example on the market. And sublingual means it's designed to be dissolved under the tongue so it gets taken directly into the bloodstream. Because a lot of people with vitamin B12 deficiency can have compromised digestion and you know, things going on with their gut that just doesn't allow their body to absorb B12 the way it should.  

00:13:50 Narelle:        So by taking it in the mouth under the tongue, it's bypassing digestion. . So it's the same with our dogs. If I've got a dog with compromised gut health, which most do, the beauty of using liquid herbs is that I know they're gonna get a powerful hit of that tonic without having to go through digestion. Their gut doesn't have to break down a tablet or a capsule. It doesn't have to go through all of those processes to have the health benefit. So that's another awesome reason that I use liquid herbs. Coming back to the alcohol, it is a great preservative. So the shelf life of any product you buy that's preserved in alcohol, I mean we all know all the top shelf alcohols that sit there for years and years and are still fine in terms of…

00:14:29 Glenn: Like a good whisky.  

00:14:30 Narelle:        Like a good whisky. So, you know, I love that in terms of knowing that if I make up a formula and it's for a particular condition for a dog or a human, and then that condition resolves, but they've still got tonic left. That might sit there for five years and still be absolutely good to go. So that's another great thing about the alcohol and as a naturopath and a herbalist using liquids gives you the creative ability to formulate an individual mix based on the dog that I'm seeing, or the person that I'm seeing. So you are not restricted by a preset formula, which is really handy for what I do.  

00:15:06 Glenn:       I like the one you make up for me, the stress formula with Astra Garla and so forth in it.  

00:15:11 Narelle:        Yeah. There's lots of goodies in there. And that's the thing, as you know, your health changes over time. I can top it up with a different herb to address a new issue. I just love it. It's so interesting how you can just tweak formulas to match the moment, which is really good. And the other great thing is, it's so much easier to dose up or down. So when I'm prescribing herbal tablets, I might say to a dog owner, you're gonna need to cut a third of that tablet off. And tablets, a lot of them are bulked up with fillers which don't agree with everyone and you know every dog as well if they're super sensitive. But the liquids, I can say to a dog owner, literally start with five drops in a day, which is a tiny amount and the dogs usually don't taste it when it's mixed into their food.  

00:15:53 Narelle:        So you can dose down if I've got a dog, and we're gonna talk about some of the more popular formulas, but if I've got a dog that's really anxious in acute situations, but not too bad at other times, we can do a, a low maintenance dose, generally, and then in the lead up to an acute known trigger, we can increase the dose quite easily. So maybe that's a good segue to talk about some of the more popular liquid herbal formulas that people ask for, or that I recommend in clinic.  

00:16:21 Glenn:        Why not? Let's do it.  

00:16:22 Narelle:        And I should say, the liquid herbs I use are human grade, which is really important to me. I'm all about quality assurance, and the company that I use, they sustainably source their herbs. They make sure they test every batch to make sure there's no adulteration. So people may not realize that a lot of herbs look similar, and when they're tested their footprint can come up similarly depending on the technology used. Some companies can put in a cheaper herb in place of a more expensive herb, things like that. So the beauty of using a human quality liquid herb is they have to meet quite stringent TGA quality assurance. 

00:16:57 Glenn:        Who's TGA?  tell the listeners who TGA are. 

00:16:59 Narelle:        The Therapeutic Goods Association. So in Australia, supplements for humans are regulated by the TGA. They're one of the strictest in the world for quality control. I know in the US it's a lot more lax, even though they've got the FDA, you know, a lot more gets through, particularly in supplements. I was reading recently that, with some herbal supplements in the US, if they're marketed towards things like libido or weight loss, companies are actually putting in pharmaceutical drugs to get the effect they want but saying it's a herbal product. Which is just crazy and so dangerous. There's a lot of contamination. I mean, turmeric is notorious for being adulterated with fillers that are toxic, like toxic colors and lead-based things. 

00:17:42 Glenn:        That's just diabolical, isn't it?  

00:17:44 Narelle:        Yeah. And unfortunately anywhere in the world, the animal supplements are even more poorly regulated than human supplements, which is why I tend to stick to the human supplements for my dog clients.  

00:17:54 Glenn:        So it's a good idea to ask questions about the quality and the handling and the componentry that goes into your herbs, I guess.  

00:18:02 Narelle:        Absolutely. And the company I use, they test at every stage, when they get the raw materials, when it's made up. And then six months, 12 months, two years to make sure that that use by date still has the potency of the active constituents that they're claiming It does.  

00:18:17 Glenn:        Yeah, good to know.  

00:18:18 Narelle:       And just because a herb is listed on the label, you need to know that it's got the right part, that's got the right actions for what you're treating. So it could be the root, the leaf, the fruit, the flowers, you know, depending on the herb in question. You know, the root might be the most beneficial part, but if it's cheaper to put the leaf in or the whole plant, then you are not gonna get the results that you're expecting. So I feel like I'm rambling, but that's because I'm so passionate about herbs. 

00:18:44 Narelle:        And quality herbs. Because there's no point as a practitioner in prescribing something if you're not gonna get the result that you're after.  

00:18:50 Glenn:       Yeah, I remember listening to you on your seminar talking about, and I think you've done it on here before, where you've talked about the importance of some of the krill that we're getting, or some of the fish oils that we're getting and so forth. And we're not gonna go into that because it's in another episode, but the base of it was that just because you've got a massive bulk buy jar of it, it can be severely contaminated or rancid.  

00:19:11 Narelle:        Yeah, fish oils a big one for contamination. And I mean lots of nasties in it if it's not a high quality product.  

00:19:18 Glenn:        But that's not herbs. We're not talking about fish oils, we're talking about herbs.  

00:19:20 Narelle:        No, but I do have to do a whole Omega 3 podcast. I keep getting asked for it, but it's so massive to do it well. But everyone watch this space, it will come.  

00:19:29 Glenn:        Okay, good.  

00:19:30 Narelle:        I'm gonna talk about four products that I use pretty regularly with my dogs and that I commonly prescribe to clients dogs. The formulas get tweaked, you know, a little bit here and there depending on the individual dog. The first one I wanna talk about is just absolutely fundamental as part of Ladybug's recovery. So for anyone who doesn't know, Ladybug is our French bulldog who had…  

00:19:52 Glenn:        Listen to the episode about what happened to Ladybug.  

00:19:54 Narelle:        Yep. Episode 2 from memory, do listen to the episode. She went through a whole spinal surgery and trauma that she's recovered amazingly from.  

00:20:03 Glenn:        Yep, and then had a relapse accident and had to go almost…  

00:20:07 Narelle:        Not back to the beginning.  

00:20:08 Glenn:        Well not back to the beginning, but it wasn't looking good for her at one stage because she injured herself through some rough play. And she got some swelling around her discs and everything like that. But thanks to Narelle's great work and Neil Barnsley, who's our acupuncturist, and even our faithful vet Jane. We got everything back on track again and she's back to her happy self and manic again.  

00:20:31 Narelle:        Oh she does our head, we just can't dampen her spirit. Doesn't matter what happens. So the first formula that I use for Ladybug post-surgery, and this is something I recommend and I prescribe this a lot for any dog that's had surgery, or any tissue injury or wounds of any description. Whether they're fresh or chronic and not healing well. The ingredients, the herbs in this formula are just amazing. So this was an absolute staple. I still use it for Ladybug, but this particularly post-surgery for humans or dogs. But we're talking about dogs today, the herbs in it. I'll just touch on the herbs and why I put them in there and when you might wanna use something like this. but things like Gotcha Cola, and I'm only gonna use the common names, no one needs to know the botanical names, but it'll all be on my website.  

00:21:24 Narelle:        But things like Gotcha Cola is just the go-to herb for anything to do with tissue healing and repair. So it's anti-inflammatory. That's a major sort of barrier to healing from injury. It's great for any skin problems and it helps with blood flow. So you know, if tissues are gonna heal adequately, your circulation has to be really good to get the blood to the injured site and to help get all that dead cellular debris away from the injury site. Gotcha Cola  is also really awesome for collagen synthesis, so any cutting into the body, we need to repair the tissue, so that's a really important part of it. And to reduce scarring, I mean, it's probably not as big a big a deal for dog clients as my human clients that go through surgery, but that's still important if we can minimise any scarring. Particularly internal scarring, which can cause issues down the track if it doesn't heal. The other ingredient, Maritime Pine, it's such an important herb, but it's not as well known in the human health supplements. And the reason is it's full of what's called Oligomeric Proanthocyanidins. I know, OPC is what the abbreviation is. 

00:22:34 Glenn: Yeah. I'd rather say that.  

00:22:45 Narelle:        But they're like super powerful antioxidants. Well they have an antioxidant action in the body. So anything that reduces free radical damage is important. It's also antibacterial, antiviral, anti-allergenic, which is so big for so many dogs. This is a really broad spectrum herb that you can use across multiple different conditions. Rose hip is something I use in my formulas. It's a really potent source of vitamin C. Most people will be familiar with rose hips through Rosehip Vital, we've spoken about that before too because we questioned them about the human and the dog versions, and whether they're the same, and they are. People often say, well why does a dog need vitamin C, because they can make their own.. But when their body's under stress, or has been injured, the metabolic processes get up-regulated and the requirements for all nutrients, not just vitamin C, increases dramatically.  

00:23:35 Narelle:        So often the dog's body after a trauma, their natural production just can't keep up with the demands of the body to heal and repair itself. And the other thing I put in my tissue healing formula is grape seed extract. Again, that's something that people read and tend to freak out about, but grape seed extract is different to grapes, and it's not toxic to dogs. Again, it's full of OPC’s. Really powerful antioxidant. It improves blood flow so it helps with circulation. Great for dogs with swollen joints or any sort of fluid or swelling in that sense and just for helping to stabilise connective tissue. So yeah, dogs that are prone to cruciate ligament injuries, that's a great herb for them and just any sort of wound healing generally. It's also good for cataracts. Just as an aside, with my tissue healing and repair formula, any injury to your dog, I had a friend whose dog cut his head open and straight away I'm like, okay, you need this formula.  

00:24:29 Narelle:       And the reason was because it had all of these amazing herbs in it to help heal that. So that's all about tissue healing and repair. And you know, a lot of dogs, I guess I see a certain type of dog client, but often they've had surgeries or are going in for surgery. So that's a really big part of what I do. Tissue healing and repair. But what goes really well with this, and again, Ladybug was on this formula, is liver detox. Because when a dog's going through surgery and they've had anesthetics and they're getting medications and drugs that's a burden to the body, and the liver particularly. But just day to day our dogs are exposed to so many environmental toxins because they're at ground height. Anything on the ground they get exposed to, on the carpets, furniture, they're just in such close contact with everything.  

00:25:16 Narelle:        So even if a dog doesn't have a diagnosed liver condition, and it's the same with my human clients, I think everyone needs liver support on a daily basis, simply because of the lifestyles that we live. And it's the same with our dogs, and dogs that are fed a kibble based diet, not all kibble, but there are some poorer quality kibbles that have a lot of artificial synthetic ingredients and nasties that again are a burden to the dog's liver. So coming out of Ladybug’s surgery, that was full on for her poor little body.  

00:25:47 Glenn:        Yeah, there was a lot. She was on a plethora of antibiotics and mood stabilisers and everything. It was really crazy what she was on for a good couple of weeks and that's only when we got her home. That's not including everything she had to have for a month at the veterinary clinic.  

00:26:04 Narelle:        Oh gosh. It's over a year ago now. But it was pretty traumatic. So yeah, liver support is fundamental for health for us and our dogs. And the beautiful thing about the liver herbs that I use, and I went through the tissue healing herbs, but I won't get through all the herbs for the products that I love and are the most popular because all of that will be on my website. People can read about the individual ingredients, the individual herbs.  

00:26:27 Glenn:       And all the contraindications that you've put up there as well. I noticed that you went the extra mile for everybody.  

00:26:32 Narelle:       It doesn't make sense not to caution people because not everything is right for every person or every dog.  

00:26:38 Glenn:        That's the scientist in you, in your regulatory affairs background.  

00:26:40 Narelle:        Well it's not just doctors that take an oath of, you know, first do no harm. It's part of the naturopathic philosophy. We don't have to swear a formal oath, but it's just an understanding that above everything else, we first do no harm. So that is the bottom line with the way I practice.  

00:26:58 Glenn:        And it's good. I liked it when you showed me the setup of what you've put up there. I thought that was really professional and obligatory.  

00:27:05 Narelle:        Technically, I don't have to put up any sort of warnings or cautions for people.  

00:27:08 Glenn:        I think it should be a minimum standard, don't you? I mean you've just gone through a really detailed response of how important it is to source your herbs or any sort of medication that you're giving to animals from somebody who's regulated and does have strict and stringent standards through people like the TGA or the AAVPMA  

00:27:28 Narelle:        Close but no cigar. APVMA,  

00:27:31 Glenn:       APVMA. Yep, which means?  

00:27:33 Narelle:        Oh gosh, the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Association, if I've got it right. But liver support, as I said, any dog that's had an anesthetic, vaccinations, is undergoing chemotherapy, they can help recovery from that. But liver supportive herbs also help with digestion. So if you've got a dog that's very gassy or bloated or prone to constipation, then supporting the liver and the gallbladder is just absolutely key. That's a great everyday product for every dog supporting the liver. As I said, I put all my human clients on liver support for wellbeing. One of the other most popular herbal formulas that I prescribe is immune support. Again, human clients, the lifestyles that we live, we're just all running on stress and adrenaline and poor diets and alcohol and sugar. That's what we're all running on.  

00:28:26 Narelle:        So immune support, particularly these days we’re generally not allowed to say the C word as a health practitioner, particularly a natural health practitioner. But, I'll just say it once so you know what I'm talking about but Covid. So you know, it's even more important for us to maintain a healthy immune system but our dogs as well. A lot of dogs that come and see me are just struggling to recover from just chronic conditions, whether it's chronic disease, chronic infection, chronic wounds and injuries that are just not resolving. Immune support broadly, is really important in those instances. And my immune support formula is based on mushrooms, Astrogalus, which is one of your favorite herbs and Withania. So in the naturopathic world, Withania is often described as a hug. It just makes people feel better, and makes our dogs feel better. So it's like getting a big hug and you just go, ah the world is a better place  

00:29:23 Glenn:        For some reason I respond well with Astragalus, it seems to really have a positive effect on me, especially when I'm feeling miserable.  

00:29:31 Narelle:        It's been used for centuries in traditional Chinese medicine. It originally,, and still is one of their main herbs as a tonic for vitality and stamina. But it's then flowed into Western herbs and is now one of western herbal medicine's main go-to herbs for wellness just generally. But it’s also a great tonic. You know, the immune support tonic that I've put together is great for older dogs. Just supporting that vitality and that stamina in our senior dogs. Again great for any dogs undergoing conventional cancer treatments, really important. While the majority of dogs are overweight or obese, I still get a small number of dogs as clients that are severely underweight and the owners are just really struggling to get weight on them and to keep it on them.  

00:30:19 Narelle:        So the immune support formula actually can help support those dog's immune systems when they're malnourished and they're not thriving, it just helps to bring them back up. from that chronic position. And then just the last one I wanna touch on is super common and that's all around stress and anxiety. The herbs in here are so lovely just for reducing those common symptoms. And again, this is a beautiful thing about liquid herbs, it could be mild stress and anxiety, right up to quite severe stress and anxiety. You just dose it accordingly which is really nice, so it can be used longer term. This is one that I've used for Pixel, one of our little Frenchies. She's a great dog, but she's a bit of nervy. 

00:31:00 Glenn: She's a stress head dog. 

00:31:01 Narelle:       It's not problematic for us, but there are some days where I think she just needs to have the edge taken off her a little bit, so this is something that I'll give to her. Really safe you know, things like chamomile and passion flower, so just great for children. They're traditionally used a lot for children's hyperactivity and anxiousness, insomnia and calming kids down in that regard. Withania, there's that hug again. And so they're just really lovely nervines, what's called nervines, which literally just help to bring the nervous system down from that fight or flight response. And then there's a couple other herbs I use in there that are a bit more potent, but I use them in smaller doses so it's not a sedating formula.  

00:31:40 Narelle:        But it's just really great for anytime that your environment changes. If you've got a dog that's super reactive to car travel or to fireworks, if you get a new pet, you might use this at a low dose in the lead up to getting the new pet, just to help that existing dog cope a little bit better. Dogs that are restless at night, it's great for any manic, hyperactive dog when it's not the behavior that you want. But if you've got a breed that's naturally manic like a border collie, you don't use something like this to bring them down because you chose the wrong breed of dog, does that make sense? So for people who have actual behavioral problems with their dog, it's not just a one treatment approach. These formulas that I use every day, every week in my clinic for my dog and human clients, it's one tool in my treatment toolbox. So, you know, if you've got a dog with anxiety, yes the liquid herbs will absolutely help to support that dog's nervous system. But you may also need to work with a trainer or a behaviorist to deal with the bigger picture of what's going on. And the great thing is a lot of these herbs can help make the dog more manageable in that training environment. 

00:32:51 Glenn:       Yeah, that's good advice. So what are these herbs called? What are their names?  

00:32:55 Narelle:       Well, it's pretty straightforward. I tried to make it really obvious what each formula is for. So I've got the anxiety and stress support for dogs. We've got immune support for dogs, and these are all for dogs because cats are so particular with what they can tolerate and what's safe. So something that's completely safe for dogs can kill a cat pretty quickly. Liver and detox support for dogs and tissue healing and repair for dogs. So, you know, you can't really get them mixed up. So what I've done, and the whole point of today is that I am moving towards things that I just kept in-house and in my clinic for people who saw me in person. With Covid, it's so hard for people to get to me in person these days, I don't wanna do them a disservice by not being able to provide them with the best treatment approach.  

00:33:41 Glenn:        So you're selling this all around Australia?  

00:33:44 Narelle:        Yes, only Australia though. So not overseas due to the legalities of herbal medicines going overseas. And like I said, these are just four of the main ones I use on a regular basis. but you know, there's a whole wide range of different formulas that I use and over time I'll add to. Ladybug’s prone to urinary tract infections into her spinal injury, so I've got a formula for UTIs, which I give at the first signs of anything happening with her. I often get dogs with fungals, scabby skin conditions. So there's a formula for that. I've got dogs with allergies, so there's a formula for that. So if people are interested in conditions that aren't covered with what we've spoken about today you just need to message me because I can certainly put that together. It's just about making the label really. In terms of the practicalities of it, I've got all the liquid herbs sitting in my clinic dispensary ready to go.  

00:34:31 Glenn:        Fantastic, so hundreds of clients can't be wrong. Where can they find it?  

00:34:35 Narelle:        Jump onto my website, naturalhealthandnutrition.com.au. Go to my shop, and you'll see there's a tab for liquid herbs. Just click on the picture and you'll get a lot more detail about each formula, what's in the formula herbal wise, what conditions you would consider using the herbs for, all the dosage instructions and like I said, tiny doses for dogs. And you'd always start at the lower dose to assess how your dog responds and to get them used to the taste. Most of the dogs don't mind, but you know, if you've got a super fussy dog, you might need to start with a half of the recommended dose, which might be a couple of drops. As Glen said, there's some safety information there for when you wouldn't give the herbs or when you might need to chat to your vet about them. So it's exciting.  

00:35:17 Glenn:        It is very exciting.  

00:35:18 Narelle:       Like I said earlier, I'm really passionate about herbs and I think they're so powerful and potent and really do have a place in the treatment of all sorts of health conditions.  

00:35:27 Glenn:       Well, as I've said before, I'm not one for the woo woo and it definitely works on me. It's worked on me ever since I met Michael, and all the stuff that you make up for me, it has an effect on me. And also I know it works on me. 'cause sometimes we have to regulate the dose for me as well. There are times where sometimes this is too strong for me and I have to get you to scale it back a little bit. So it's worked on Ladybug, it's worked on Opie, it's worked on Pixel, it's worked on Randy, and it's working on Macho.  

00:35:53 Narelle:        Oh, that was the other thing. Because Macho, being a puppy, had a few bouts of diarrhea in his first six months of life, I've got a diarrhea formula as well. 

00:36:01 Glenn:        Yes, you went and took a lot of photos and showed me a morning breakdown of Macho’s diarrhea patterns, it's important. 

00:36:08 Narelle:        It is important, when you go to the vet and you're trying to describe poo, it's so much easier to show them your phone and say, this is the history of his poo.  

00:36:14 Glenn:       The consistency of his diarrhea, right. Let's wind it up there, huh?  

00:36:20 Narelle:        Yeah, so any questions, please jump onto my Facebook page, Natural Health for People and Pets. If you've got any questions, you can email me at narelle@ naturalhealthandnutrition.com.au. And like I said, the first place to go to find out more is my website. naturalhealthandnutrition.com.au. Thanks everyone.

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